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:zz: What I have time for [resend] ( was Re: [zzdev] SORRY, this was Gzz-specific (was: Re: :zz: Coplanar marking explained)

[sorry all-- sent this first to just Benja by mistake;
 slight changes]


I am extremely pressed for time, so basically can only deal
 on this list with theory questions, or matters that are common
 to all zzstructure implementations.

There are very nice features and specializations in Gzz that
 I wish I had time to study and relate to, let alone discuss. 
 But I don't dare try to use Gzz again until I have reassurances
 from someone that maybe an hour of the simplest basic testing
 has been done.  (For Windows.)

Last time I tried a current version of Gzz was last December
 on a train in England.  It crashed hard just before the train
 arrived; there was no way to capture the crash for documentation.
 But I'm sure anyone could have done it.  I suspect that the
 developers aren't *using* Gzz enough :)  Try repeated cloning. 
 (Especially, in various directions to various new contexts.
 That seems to be the current frontier for zzstructure systems.)
 I would expect the Gzz clone bugs to bite through Linux as well.

Best, TN

At 07:30 PM 5/6/02 +0200, you wrote:
>I just noticed that my mail below was VERY misleading, especially as I 
>said "Hi Ted and all" in the first line. While the first few paragraphs 
>were indeed adressed to Ted, everything labeled "Proposal..." was 
>entirely Gzz-specific and should have been marked so.
>I do understand that Ted does not have the time to give our group design 
>advice currently. If he manages to comment on something occasionally, 
>that's great, but I certainly did not intend to burden him with 
>commenting on this!
>SORRY for this mistake on my part.
>- B.
>B. Fallenstein wrote:
>> Hi Ted and all!
>> Funny that you should mention coplanar marking right now-- I had been 
>> leaving through old zzdev mails just a few days ago and been pondering 
>> it a bit.
>> Ted Nelson wrote:
>>  > I thought
>>  >  I had a use for some second dimension of marking, but
>>  >  at the moment can't remember it.
>> Earlier, you wanted to use d.marklist or d.listmarks for the list of 
>> marking-cells inside a mark (instead of d.1 in your present design). 
>> (This is what I mentioned as d..mark-list in my other mail. Gzz 0.6 uses 
>> this internally, by the way.)
>>  > The headcell of a particular mark (on d.1) is probably the
>>  >  best one for referring to the entire mark.  But we may
>>  >  want to have a reference token to take elsewhere to identify
>>  >  the mark.
>> I'd prefer to use the headcell of the mark, simply connecting it where 
>> you need it. Especially when using d..mark-list instead of d.1, its 
>> special connections would not get in the way.
>>  > We would light up some particular mark and
>>  >  do on operation on the selected cells by-- let's say--
>>  >  - selecting one of these headcells with the left cursor;
>>  >  - this would light up the selection;
>>  >  - performing the operation with the right cursor,
>>  > which then takes place with the whole bunch.  (For instance,
>>  >  Hop would hop the whole bunch.
>> Hm, interesting! So far I had assumed there would be a ringrank of marks 
>> and a current mark, as with the dimension and view lists.
>> An open question is the set of keyboard commands used for marking.
>> A few musings about key bindings (hopefully for implementation in Gzz 
>> 0.8)--
>>     m: mark current cell in right arrowset
>>     o m ("other mark"): mark current cell in left arrowset
>>     <cell number> m: mark the cell identified by <cell number>
>>     M <dir>: mark half-rank in direction
>>     Ctrl-M: change to next mark set
>>     Alt-M: change to previous mark set
>> [Note: proposed change of use for 'o' key: perform an action on the cell 
>> in the *other* arrowset, e.g. 'o - l' would connect the cell in the left 
>> arrowset to the right from the cell in the right arrowset; 'o G' would 
>> make the left arrowset jump to the position of the right arrowset. The 
>> current meaning of 'o,' "go to rootclone," could be assumed by the 'r' 
>> key.]
>> On the mark list, there's always one mark that does not mark any cells 
>> yet. To start a new mark, simply Ctrl-M on that mark and start marking 
>> cells. Marking a cell in that mark creates a new empty mark on the list.
>> BTW, generally, I feel the currently active mark set should be one of a 
>> number of options that can be configured to function keys (amongst 
>> dimensions shown, cursor position, arrowset, active frame, and view). 
>> Thus, I'd like to tell my computer quickly: "F4 is the current set of 
>> dimensions (d.1, d.4, d.mark) and the current mark (m.7)." Then, 
>> pressing F4, I want to change to these configurations (leaving all other 
>> configurations what they were before). I think for me, this could ease 
>> the task of navigating zzstructure considerably.
>> - Benja
Theodor Holm Nelson      ?      Designer      ?      Consultant   
Senior Fellow, the McLuhan Institute, Toronto, Canada
Visiting Professor, University of Southampton, England
 ?  e-mail: ted@xxxxxxxxxx   ?  world-wide fax 1/415/332-0136
 ?  http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/    ?  http://www.xanadu.net
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