Re: [zzdev] ZZDEV Problems

[Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Jay--

Glad you're aboard.  Best, Ted



At 02:34 PM 4/5/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I've been trying for the past several days to post some new msgs to ZZDEV,
>without any success. The mail keeps bouncing.
>
>The address I've been sending to is zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx, which should be the
>list, correct? I'm not sure what I am doing wrong so far, and it naturally
>is disturbing to me.
>
>I'll include the two msgs I wanted to send below. HTH.
>
>
>
>Windows port project
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sorry for being gone for so long, but other matters have been getting in
>the way. After my talk with Marlene, I had promised to try and work on the
>prototype Windows 95/98 installation package, and I should be free to do so
>now. If anyone else is already working on this, let me know (I thought
>someone said Andrew was?), as I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
>
>I am aware of the liability concerns that you've voiced earlier, so this
>will be just a proof-of-concept version for now. What'll happen with it
>later will be you decision, of course).
>
>For now, I'm using ActivePerl 1.0 (build 509), which is supposed to be BC
>with Sarathy's port. Since its under the Community Liscense, it supposedly
>doesn't restrict your usage, but I can't say how it would effect us. The
>other alternative, Perl for Win32, is under both Artistic Liscense and GPL,
>and I know that there are concerns about the latter already. Both are
>distributed and supported by ActiveState, and  can be found at
>http://www.activestate.com/default.htm . If there are other Win32 perl
>ports that we may use or need to support, let me know.
>
>I have a few questions before going ahead, and a few suggestions  that have
>already come to mind after going over the porting instructions that already
>exist.
>
>First off, when we're ready to do so, I assume we'll want a self-installing
>system a la InstallShield. In order to do this, I'll need to know what
>we'll be bundling together with the program. For example, will we want to
>have it autoinstall Perl (or offer the option to do so), or should we
>assume that the user has already installed it (or can install it later)? In
>the latter case, we might have to suppoort multiple Perl ports, which would
>be a major hassle; in the former case, the install might walk all over any
>existing Perl they have, which is just as bad. Also, there are additional
>packages needed, like the DBFile and WinCurses libraries, or (in the case
>of ActivePerl under Win95) the  DCOM95 controls. What it comes down to is
>this: either we bundle them together, adding to the overhead of the install
>and sticking a lot of options for the user to choose from, or we require
>them to pick up a lot of packages on their own from several different web
>sites, with all the hassle that that entails. IMHO, while its not
>unreasonable to require the latter for developers, trying to do so for
>novice users is a potential disaster. The all-in-one package solves the
>problem better, even if it means having to write seperate 'auto' and
>'expert' install modes. Better to solve the problem once on our end than
>have each user solve it themselves.
>
>This may seem obvious, but there are also issues of licensing and such that
>would need to be addressed in order to do it that way. I thought I'd bring
>it all up now rather than leave things to chance.
>
>The second point I'd like to make is that it IMO we've gotten to the point
>where we need to break zigzag.pm into seperate pieces. The progam is
>getting quite large, and it will soon be unmanageable this way. More
>importantly, it will be a lot easier to maintain all the ports (I'm
>assuming that there will be a Mac port too, at some point) if we break the
>system-related part out into seperate files. Again, this is pretty obvious
>from an SE point of view, but it adds to the trouble with distributions
>etc. and needs to be carefully thought out.
>
>I've only just picked up version 6.8, so I'll see how it works with the
>existing material. I should have some suggestions and (hopefully) a working
>port RSN.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Next time I'll salt my toes first...
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Earlier today I wrote :
>
>>The second point I'd like to make is that it IMO we've gotten to the point
>>where we need to break zigzag.pm into seperate pieces. 
>
>OK, well, I should have been paying more attention, but as I said, I was
>only just getting my bearings. I now can see that it *is* broken into two
>parts (zigzag, the main file, and zigzag.pm, the support functions). Sorry
>for any hostile implications that I might have seemed to have been making.
>
>I think I'd best keep my mouth shut, until I've got a better idea of how
>the program works...
>
>
>--
>Schol-R-LEA;2 ELF JAM LCF BiWM MGT GS (http://www.slip.net/~scholr/)
>First Speaker, Last Eristic Church of Finagle and Holy Bisexuality
>i with the soul of a hamlet	 ** Ye shall know the Truth, and 
>doomed always to wallow in farce ** The Truth shall drive you mad.
>
>
____________________________________________________
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
 Keio University, Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
 Home Fax from USA: 011-81-466-46-7368  (If in Japan, 0466-46-7368)
http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/  (Professorial page)
_____________________________________________________
Permanent: Project Xanadu, 3020 Bridgeway #295, Sausalito CA 94965
 Tel. 415/ 331-4422, fax 415/332-0136  
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PERMANENT E-MAIL: ted@xxxxxxxxxx
_____________________________________________________
QOD 99.03.31
"Everything is like everything else, but some of the resemblances are
harder to see."  TN99