Re: [zzdev] Re: Conjoinment (was: User semantics for dimensions / sug'd guidelines

[Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Continuing to reply to Mark-Jason--

>> This "conjoinment" may be a good term.  I have
>>  been noticing that you generally want new dimensions
>>  in pairs in just this way,
>That's what I was thinking.  Any time someone is going to want to have
>a relationship that is one-to-many, they will need to do this.

Well noted.  The question of whether each new dimension
 will need its own new conjoined mate is less clear to me.

Best,T


At 10:31 AM 10/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> This "conjoinment" may be a good term.  I have
>>  been noticing that you generally want new dimensions
>>  in pairs in just this way,
>> d.inside / d.contents
>> d.mark / d.marklist (tells what cells are part of
>>  "the same mark")
>
>That's what I was thinking.  Any time someone is going to want to have
>a relationship that is one-to-many, they will need to do this.
>
>> "Transitive" means that ordering is important. 
>
>Not exactly.  Order can be important wihout being transitive.
>
>Consider:
>
>	---> d.ancestor
>
>	A--B--C
>
>Here you want --- links to express `ancestry'.
>A is the ancestor of B, and B is the ancestor of C.
>But it is transitive, so A is also the ancestor of C.
>
>	---> d.child
>
>	A--B--C
>
>Here you want --- links to express a parent-child relation.
>A is the parent of B, and B is the parent of C.
>But is is *not* transitive, so A is *not* the parent of C.
>
>The two pictures look exactly the same, so if ZZ is going to
>understand the difference between these two pictures, there will have
>to be an explanation somewhere else.
>
>> See my paper on Preflets
>
>Where?
>
>> I think 1 and 3 come from somewhere else
>>  (as you see, I'm no mathematician) and may not 
>>  have meaning or relevance.  Hey, I'm open--
>
>I wrote them down because I ran into examples where they were
>important. 
>
>Symmetric means that in A---B, A is related to B in the same way that
>B is related to A.  If you hop A over B and make it B---A, the meaning
>does not change.  Example: d.contents is symmetric.  d.inside is not.
>
>If ZZ is going to do things like selecting and gathering cells
>automatically, it will have to understand something about the meaning
>of the structures you build.  Symmetry and transitivity are both
>important here.
>
>In an earlier message, I suggested that there could be an operation
>for automatically alphabetizing cells:
>
>	---> d.sex
>	MALE   -- Homer -- Bart -- Ned -- Barney -- Moe -- Snake
>
>You'd put the cursor on MALE, press the button, and the structure
>would become
>
>	MALE   -- Barney -- Bart -- Homer -- Moe -- Ned -- Snake
>
>In order to do this, ZZ must know that d.sex is symmetric and
>transitive.  Otherwise it should give you a warning first, because
>what you are asking for makes no sense, and if you try to alphabetize
>in a dimesion that is not symmetric or transitive, you will change the
>meaning of the structure:
>
>	---> d.son
>	Grandpa -- Dad -- Ted
>
>	||   Alphabetize
>	\/
>
>	Dad -- Grandpa -- Ted        (ooops)
>
>> >There were a couple of others I thought of, but my notebook is
>> >downstairs.
>> 
>> Uh-oh.  You DEFINITELY are one of us.
>
>My notebook is now in the compuiter, so beware.
>
>
>
____________________________________________________
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
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