zz: inside/contents MADE SUPER-CLEAR, I hope

[Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Bek--

>Guess it could, but it wouldn't make sense.  It always works
>left-right?

Wait-- left and right are visualizations, easily reversed or
 made into up-down.
It always works *posward*.

>> d.inside =>
>> a b c d  ...
>> so in this example, b is inside a, c iis inside b, d
>>  is inside c, etc.
>
>Therefore, c is also (in a secondary way) inside a too,
>right?

Zackly!
 
>> Now, the problem with only having that one dimension
>>  to represent containment is that in this model,
>>  each thing can only contain *one other* thing,
>>  like nesting Russian dolls.
>
>I'm with you here still ...
> 
>> So to put more than one thing inside A, we need
>>  some way of representing it, a contents list;
>>  and a simple way to do that is have it dangle from
>>  the first contained object.  A design choice is
>>  whether to have some title, or just the first item,
>>  at the top of the list; I choose to put the first item,
>>  since there might not even be a second.
>
>So with this
>
>A b c d          --> inside
>  e
>  f
>
>(where e and f hang off b)
>
>b, e -and- f are inside A?

Yup.  The way you can have more than one thing inside cell X
 is to hang a list from cell X.  The list hangs in d.contents, since it's a
list
 of the "contents" of X.  But its connection to X is in d.inside, so the first
 element of the list (in case there's only one) is already right there.

Think of it also this way: you can have a hierarchy of containment,
 with each thing containing a bunch of things, and each of those
 containing another bunch of things, by putting all these little lists
 posward in d.inside.

What may be confusing at first is the cutoff rule.
 TWO DRAWINGS FOLLOW (as separate emails)
 which may make clear the following:

CUTOFF RULE: the next negward link in d.inside
 TRUNCATES INTERPRETATION OF THE CONTENTS LIST.

Study the pix and see if it becomes clear why.

Love & cheers, Ted


A.  THE FUNDAMENTAL CONCEPT
B.  WITH ADDITIONAL EXTRANEOUS CONNECTIONS,
 IGNORED BY THE SYSTEM





At 04:54 PM 10/28/98 +1100, you wrote:
>Ted Nelson wrote:
>> The concept is simple, and exactly matches the names,
>>  *once you get it* ;-)
>> but as with so many things, getting it may not be
>>  instantaneous.
>> AHEM!  (Tapping pointer on lectern) =====
>
>It's complicated!  Inside/contents I've never grokked :(
> 
>> "Inside" is transitive-- (could it be otherwise?)--
>
>Guess it could, but it wouldn't make sense.  It always works
>left-right?
> 
>> d.inside =>
>> a b c d  ...
>> so in this example, b is inside a, c iis inside b, d
>>  is inside c, etc.
>
>Therefore, c is also (in a secondary way) inside a too,
>right?
> 
>> Now, the problem with only having that one dimension
>>  to represent containment is that in this model,
>>  each thing can only contain *one other* thing,
>>  like nesting Russian dolls.
>
>I'm with you here still ...
> 
>> So to put more than one thing inside A, we need
>>  some way of representing it, a contents list;
>>  and a simple way to do that is have it dangle from
>>  the first contained object.  A design choice is
>>  whether to have some title, or just the first item,
>>  at the top of the list; I choose to put the first item,
>>  since there might not even be a second.
>
>So with this
>
>A b c d          --> inside
>  e
>  f
>
>(where e and f hang off b)
>
>b, e -and- f are inside A?
> 
>> The expected structures is: 
>> d.contents \/   d.inside =>  ("|" here means "no connection)
>> A a
>>    b
>>    c
>>  B d
>>    e
>>    f
>
>This doesn't make sense to me, sorry :(  (Is Ted using a weird
>proportional font?)
>
>bekj
>
>-- 
>: --Neophilic-Hacker-Grrl-Geek-Eclectic-Gay-Disabled-Boychick--
>: gossamer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/
>: Innovation is hard to schedule.  -- Dan Fylstra
>
>
____________________________________________________
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
 Keio University, Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
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Professorial home page http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/ 
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Quotation of the day, 98.10.28:
"The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is
comprehensible."  Albert Einstein