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Re: [zzdev] Brainwave: Cell Contents
- To: zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: Re: [zzdev] Brainwave: Cell Contents
- From: Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:26:34 +0900
- Cc: ted@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- In-reply-to: <19980925204513.A12475@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Reply-to: zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx
This shows how sharp you are. This is just what
Andrew and I have decided.
Keeping the contents outside the cells will make
lots of things easier, including hand-editing and
eyeball viewing, fusion of datasets from different
More soon. Also I think I sent out a memo on this
At 08:45 PM 9/25/98 +1000, you wrote:
>This occured to me while I was in the shower (why do brainwaves
>always come when you're in the shower and too wet and soapy to
>write them down (Hmmm, whiteboards in the shower, anybody?)).
>Ahem, anyway ...
>Is there any particular reason that all the data in a particular
>zigzag data file (We DO need a name for one of those. Call it a
>'zag'?) (Then we can call the activity of using ZZ 'zigging' :) (but I
>digress ...) to be all in one "place"?
>Currently we store ALL the ZZ data for a single "database" in one
>file, usually zigzig.data in the current directory. I recall people
>talking about interfacing ZZ with OSMIC and hence storing all the data
>in one OSMIC server.
>What about letting a cell contain a REFERENCE and then we can display
>the referent instead of the reference. Like formulas in spreadsheets
>where you enter a formula but it displays to you the result, not the
>So if you entered:
>as the only contents of a cell then ZZ will grab the page (this is easy
>in perl) and display THAT in the cell.
>Or if you entered:
>it will query the OSMIC server on servername and construct the right
>display from the offsets you give it. Etc.
>You could also, a-la Lynx, enter:
>and it'll grab the file off the disk and display THAT ... or
>and it'll execute the program and display its OUTPUT!
>If you wanted to go the whole-hog you could make a referent the ONLY
>thing a cell can contain, and if the user tries to edit an empty cell
>you can invent a local file (say ~/.zigzag/some-random-name) and etid
>that. Sorta like HyperWave invents filenames if they aren't
> - You can edit the individual text files out of ZigZag if you want
> to. (This is something I'd like).
> - Makes the data file smaller and easier to manage.
> - You can get ZigZag to contain information that changes - eg I
> could put http://www.slashdot.org/ in a cell and always see the
> current slashdot headlines! Or the weather, or the stock exchange
> values or the MOTD or ... anything!
> - There's Perl modules to support this sort of thing, so it's not
> hard to code.
> - You can no longer just give somebody a zigzag.data file and
> guarantee that's -all- the info they'll need to display the
> dataset it contains. But we could write a utiliy to run over
> the cells and list all the relavent files fairly easily.
> - Figuring out when to update the data from files that may change,
> like URLs. This could make startup slow if we have a zag that
> contains 100 URLs and they all try to load at startup! Need some
> sort of local cache and some smart rules about when to update
> things? Possible though. Also some sort of update and/or
> write-lock for local files, same reason.
> - Have to "know" which pages you can and can't edit and disallow
> editing for certain cells.
>I keep thinking somebody else MUST have been through this before, is
>it a new idea at all? But I like it a lot.
>Just noticed something ... I assume osmic://servername/offsets isn't a
>valid URL but can we register it somewhere/somehow so it is? That'd
>mean any browser could display OSMIC files!! Does OSMIC even have a
>standard port or anything? I can alter the program trivially to work
>accross a network, if it doesn't already.
>: Gossamer gossamer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx | Xanadoodler
>: http://www.tertius.net.au/~gossamer/ | And proud of it :)
>: This above all; to thine ownself be true, and it must follow, as the
>: night the day, thow canst not then be false to any man.
>: -- William Shakespeare, 'Hamlet'
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
Keio University, Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
Home Fax from USA: 011-81-466-46-7368 (If in Japan, 0466-46-7368)
Professorial home page http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/
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Quotation of the day, 98.09.25:
"Love is the marshmallow on top of the blood-and-guts sundae we call life."